Michael Jackson R.I.P.

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rileybooks		#41	[-]
Posts: 1412 (06/26/09 02:56:01) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Well said, Gary. That just about sums him up.
Vince Liaguno		#42	[-]
Posts: 1168 (06/26/09 03:30:30) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lawrence Dagstine wrote: So what? So he supposedly blew a tsunami of man batter out of his yogi bear on some kid's doink. Seriously, probably the most insensitive characterization of child molestation I've ever had the misfortune to read. I'm sure your clever play on words will bring comfort to anyone who has ever suffered the horrors of child sexual abuse or exploitation. Yeah, so what if it was true? It's just children we're talking about after all. They're resilient. ~ Vince Author Website \| Blog \| MySpace \| Dark Scribe Press \| Dark Scribe Magazine \|
Vince Liaguno		#43	[-]
Posts: 1169 (06/26/09 03:32:36) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	LL Soares wrote: Lisa Morton wrote: who I have now outlived. Lisa, I for one am glad you're still with us. Make that two among legion others. ~Vince Author Website \| Blog \| MySpace \| Dark Scribe Press \| Dark Scribe Magazine \|
NewmanJames		#44	[-]
Posts: 3610 (06/26/09 03:38:39) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vince Liaguno wrote: Lawrence Dagstine wrote: So what? So he supposedly blew a tsunami of man batter out of his yogi bear on some kid's doink. Seriously, probably the most insensitive characterization of child molestation I've ever had the misfortune to read. I'm sure your clever play on words will bring comfort to anyone who has ever suffered the horrors of child sexual abuse or exploitation. ~ Vince No kidding. That was an attempt to be funny, I assume? J.N. Official Site MySpace Page
Frank Menser		#45	[-]
Posts: 1173 (06/26/09 05:13:26) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Monster or Saint? Neither IMO. So much of his reputation is Speculation - and that's the point. That he was strange and his behavior was questionable? No doubt. But did we know for a fact that he molested kids and wasn't just trying to capture a childhood lost? No. Personally I resent the mentality that gets off condemning a star or (for that matter anybody) without conclusive proof. Sometimes it is too easy to throw rocks at the suggestion of impropriety. Part of the problem in remembering him lies with our own ages and perspective. It's hard for those of us who were there when the Jackson Five broke into the scene and later with the THRILLER era to shove those times into the toilet because of what came later. We have good memories of our own lives entwined with his music. To spit on that, to say how can you not condemn everything about this man is (in a way) spitting on parts of our own lives. Youth is unforgiving in it's judgement. Those of us who are older and have fond memories of what was haven't got such a clear choice. Saint...no...more deserving of memorial than our troops...no. But I think for what he did give us, we should think a moment before throwing away everything he did based on speculation of what he might have also been. Four fingers are never quite enough...
Vince Liaguno		#46	[-]
Posts: 1171 (06/26/09 05:49:00) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Frank Menser wrote: Part of the problem in remembering him lies with our own ages and perspective. It's hard for those of us who were there when the Jackson Five broke into the scene and later with the THRILLER era to shove those times into the toilet because of what came later. We have good memories of our own lives entwined with his music. To spit on that, to say how can you not condemn everything about this man is (in a way) spitting on parts of our own lives. Youth is unforgiving in it's judgement. Those of us who are older and have fond memories of what was haven't got such a clear choice. Nicely articulated, Frank, even if I respectfully disagree in part. As someone who grew up with the Michael Jackson phenomenon as well, I can still appreciate the impact of his music on that part of my life; I simply won't do it at the expense of turning a blind adult eye at his exceptionally poor, well-documented judgement with underage kids and the unproven allegations of further impropriety --- all in the name of good 'ole nostalgia. I'll gladly fork over a bit of my own warm-n-fuzzy feelings of nostalgia for the sake of a greater focus on the protection and advocacy of children against sexual abuse and exploitation. To each his own, of course --- but for me, the implications behind little boys being given alcohol and sleeping in the same bed as a non-related adult male eclipses all those admittedly great high school moments trying to emulate the "Billie Jean" moonwalk or "Thriller" zombie dance. My priorities are whacked that way, I guess. ~ Vince [Edited for spelling] Author Website \| Blog \| MySpace \| Dark Scribe Press \| Dark Scribe Magazine \| Last Edited By: Vince Liaguno 06/26/09 06:02:54. Edited 1 times.
VictorVoyles		#47	[-]
Posts: 1269 (06/26/09 06:09:42) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Michael Jackson, I believe, was a good man. Reading about the trials and all, the doctors that were involved pretty much came out and said that it was most unlikely that he was a child molester. I think his childhood really speaks about what he was trying to do. He didn't want other children to go through what he went though. He wanted children to have a childhood. The pedophilia charges killed Michael. One of the victim's father came out and had even stated that for Michael it was lose-lose. Because even if Michael won the court case, he'd still lose because people would believe the accusations. And he was right. Michael Jackson won and STILL had to pay for it. I believe that he was just too fucked up in the head to be a pedophile.
Bookhoard		#48	[-]
Posts: 1224 (06/26/09 07:17:56) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	My attitude is that until he's convicted of a crime, he's innocent. The vast majority of criminals do have a history of convictions, so if he doesn't I feel that the burden of proof should rest heavily on his accusers. This is one thing I don't like about celebrity trials: they give the public a misleading view of the criminal justice system. Most cases never go to trial and involve defendents who have been in and out of jail their entire lives.
Frank Menser		#49	[-]
Posts: 1174 (06/26/09 08:58:22) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vince - I appreciate your view but, I wasn't just referring to "good old Nostalgia." Micheal singing "ONE..TWO..Three..." brings my mind back to Benny's Bar in Rota, Spain and good friends I had there and will never see again. Of Spanish and Australian bar maids singing along (which really sounded strange with their accents). Memories are linked often to music. So when that sound that brought back those pleasant memories becomes a trigger for thoughts of a possible pedophile, it messes with my head and takes the joy out of remembering. I am definitely not advocating deviant behavior just because the man was famous. But on the same token, I know how easy it is for a innocent act to be turned into a career wrecking scandal. And there are people who relish this and get their rocks off on it. Like with Paul Rubens who (if he hadn't been a celebrity) would have elicited little comment for what happened in a men's room. I think Jackson exhibited some bad judgement and definitely had a problem, but I don't think it was sexual, and neither did the jury. No blind eye here, just an appreciation that the truth is rarely what we hear on the news or see in the tabloids. Until someone actually proves there was something going on I am not ready to trash Jackson or forget the charitable things he also did. Four fingers are never quite enough...
Jack Haringa		#50	[-]
Posts: 40 (06/26/09 09:22:15) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"?
Frank Menser		#51	[-]
Posts: 1175 (06/26/09 09:28:12) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"? If the total sum of human behavior was taken in full measure, then we would all be considered Mad. Four fingers are never quite enough...
lokilokust		#52	[-]
Posts: 3458 (06/26/09 09:28:33) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"? yeah that's some bigoted bullshit right there. yrs. in exile, -s.j. bagley
Morikawa		#53	[-]
Posts: 27 (06/26/09 09:33:05) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Oh, wow. Just . . . wow. The natives are getting restless.
dogpoet		#54	[-]
Posts: 5527 (06/26/09 10:04:24) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	VictorVoyles wrote: I believe that he was just too fucked up in the head to be a pedophile. Not having a go, Victor, but do you reckon that most pedophiles are playing with a full deck? I doubt that the lad being a mess rules it out, sadly. Please buy my book, somebody?
VeryUnseemly		#55	[-]
Posts: 916 (06/26/09 10:09:55) Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	lokilokust wrote: Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"? yeah that's some bigoted bullshit right there. Basically, yeah.
Brian Keene		#56	[-]
Posts: 886 (06/26/09 10:48:56) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fuck it. Life's too short to joust with stupid people. Last Edited By: Brian Keene 06/26/09 11:01:39. Edited 3 times.
Kenwood		#57	[-]
Posts: 593 (06/26/09 11:01:29) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	lokilokust wrote: Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"? yeah that's some bigoted bullshit right there. Bigoted? Jesus. Is that your standard response to things around here? Just recklessly call people racists and bigots? It's such a cheap and boring response, one that only online assholes have the balls to say. We all know you'd never talk this way in person, so spare me. As for clarifying, my comment was not meant as a personal stance, though I do believe there is something mentally off about being born a man and later turning himself into a woman, or vice versa. People can do as they wish, though. I'll never begrudge them that. I simply find it hilarious that a man can say he's a woman and people will get on board with that. But if someone else decided he wanted to be a tiger, and got tattoos and surgery to make that happen, those very same people that are okay with a woman becoming a man would call him crazy. Crazy, right? But cutting off your penis and taking hormone pills to grow breasts or getting breast implants...not even a little bit crazy? "Happy people have no stories" --Therapy? Last Edited By: Kenwood 06/26/09 11:04:26. Edited 2 times.
Lawrence Dagstine		#58	[-]
Posts: 2879 (06/26/09 11:05:18) Veteran Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Brian Keene wrote: Fuck it. Life's too short to joust with stupid people. Brian. I saw you cut that post. I see bigots disappeared now too. What about when it comes to your fiction, and you have to chop up a little boy or girl for the sake of the story, or for the tension. And Vince, I love how you talk about characterization in this thread but totally contradict yourself in the politcal correctness thread when it comes to "being real" in a story. It's like two different people talking two different things. So there is the possibility that Michael Jackson wanked (like how I put that in bold) off to children --- oh no, he used wanked, let's take our time time machine back to Miss Cruthers class circa 1960 right away --- and that is what is wrong with our society. Being yourself. Lawrence Dagstine Homepage: www.lawrencedagstine.com Order FRESH BLOOD: http://www.genremall.com/anthologiesr.htm#freshblood Last Edited By: Lawrence Dagstine 06/26/09 11:09:05. Edited 1 times.
Brian Keene		#59	[-]
Posts: 887 (06/26/09 11:07:29) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kenwood wrote: lokilokust wrote: Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: MJ was old and should have known better, but when people think it's okay for a man to believe he's a woman, why can't people get on board with an equally crazy dude thinking he's still a kid? So, just to clarify: you think that people who are transgendered or have gender dysphoria are "crazy dudes"? yeah that's some bigoted bullshit right there. Bigoted? Jesus. Is that your standard response to things around here? Just recklessly call people racists and bigots? It's such a cheap and boring response, one that only online assholes have the balls to say. We all know you'd never talk this way in person, so spare me. As for clarifying, my comment was not meant as a personal stance, though I do believe there is something mentally off about being born a man and later turning himself into a woman, or vice versa. People can do as they wish, though. I'll never begrudge them that. I simply find it hilarious that a man can say he's a woman and people will get on board with that. But if someone else decided he wanted to be a tiger, and got tattoos and surgery to make that happen, those very same people that are okay with a woman becoming a man would call him crazy. Crazy, right? But cutting off your penis and taking hormone pills to grow breasts or getting breast implants...not even a little bit crazy? Way to represent your magazine, your magazine's staff, and perhaps most importantly, your magazine's contributors. I bet you'll make Necon all kinds of fun.
Brian Keene		#60	[-]
Posts: 888 (06/26/09 11:10:53) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lawrence Dagstine wrote: Brian Keene wrote: Fuck it. Life's too short to joust with stupid people. Brian. I saw you cut that post. I see bigots disappeared now too. What about when it comes to your fiction, and you have to chop up a little boy or girl for the sake of the story, or for the tension. And Vince, I love how you talk about characterization in this thread but totally contradict yourself in the politcal correctness thread when it comes to "being real" in a story. It's like two different people talking two different things. Yes, Lawrence. I cut the post, partially out of respect for Matt and partially out of respect for the folks who are trying to have an intelligent conversation here. And also because I don't want to add to your victim complex. But since you asked, there's a big difference between fiction and a callous conversational remark. If you don't know the difference, or don't understand how your comment was wildly inappropriate, then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

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Michael Jackson R.I.P.