Michael Jackson R.I.P.

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Kenwood		#61	[-]
Posts: 594 (06/26/09 11:13:21) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Brian Keene wrote: Way to represent your magazine, your magazine's staff, and perhaps most importantly, your magazine's contributors. I bet you'll make Necon all kinds of fun. Really? For asking a simple question? I imagine I'll do fine at NECON, especially since online bullies don't do well in real life. Never have I been called a racist or a bigot before...until I joined this forum. "Happy people have no stories" --Therapy?
Lawrence Dagstine		#62	[-]
Posts: 2880 (06/26/09 11:23:26) Veteran Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Brian Keene wrote: Lawrence Dagstine wrote: Brian Keene wrote: Fuck it. Life's too short to joust with stupid people. Brian. I saw you cut that post. I see bigots disappeared now too. What about when it comes to your fiction, and you have to chop up a little boy or girl for the sake of the story, or for the tension. And Vince, I love how you talk about characterization in this thread but totally contradict yourself in the politcal correctness thread when it comes to "being real" in a story. It's like two different people talking two different things. Yes, Lawrence. I cut the post, partially out of respect for Matt and partially out of respect for the folks who are trying to have an intelligent conversation here. And also because I don't want to add to your victim complex. But since you asked, there's a big difference between fiction and a callous conversational remark. If you don't know the difference, or don't understand how your comment was wildly inappropriate, then I genuinely feel sorry for you. There is no victim complex, Brian (could you describe the complex). Actually, you know what, forget it. Because though Michael Jackson was a flawed man, I don't believe he touched some kid(s). The media made a storm of it, he was blackmailed, belittled, and mixed in with the way he acted, looked, just wanted to be himself... They made him into a monster. I hate censorship. Whether it be humorous or talking straight to the point. Make's one out to be angry, full of hatred. And the one thing I don't want to be, is grow in these years to be an angry old stuffy man. I feel sorry for the people who watch MAD TV or the Dave Chappelle Show; media like that really goes the distance too with similar idioms and characterization. P.S.: I will save you the trouble............ -------------------> But Lawrence, there is a certain way to act on a messageboard and present yourself, yada yada yada. Lawrence Dagstine Homepage: www.lawrencedagstine.com Order FRESH BLOOD: http://www.genremall.com/anthologiesr.htm#freshblood
Brian Keene		#63	[-]
Posts: 889 (06/26/09 11:35:19) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lawrence, I'm not going to argue with you. PS Gifford and some other fine folks have filled me in on your situation, and I understand your issues a little better now. I think it's great that you have your writing and a community of folks that you can interact with and socialize with. And you're an adult. If you think your 'joke' was appropriate, then that's really all that matters, right? Keep on trucking, and selah.
Jack Haringa		#64	[-]
Posts: 41 (06/26/09 11:40:57) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kenwood wrote: Brian Keene wrote: Way to represent your magazine, your magazine's staff, and perhaps most importantly, your magazine's contributors. I bet you'll make Necon all kinds of fun. Really? For asking a simple question? I imagine I'll do fine at NECON, especially since online bullies don't do well in real life. Never have I been called a racist or a bigot before...until I joined this forum. If you don't see how your comments are grossly insulting, entirely bigoted, and more than mildly homophobic, I don't know how to explain it to you. However, I'll be happy to tell you the same thing at Necon.
Kenwood		#65	[-]
Posts: 595 (06/26/09 11:51:44) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Jack Haringa wrote: Kenwood wrote: Brian Keene wrote: Way to represent your magazine, your magazine's staff, and perhaps most importantly, your magazine's contributors. I bet you'll make Necon all kinds of fun. Really? For asking a simple question? I imagine I'll do fine at NECON, especially since online bullies don't do well in real life. Never have I been called a racist or a bigot before...until I joined this forum. If you don't see how your comments are grossly insulting, entirely bigoted, and more than mildly homophobic, I don't know how to explain it to you. However, I'll be happy to tell you the same thing at Necon. I wasn't referring to you with that bully comment, Jack. I apologize if it seemed that way. Listen, I am not trying to be insulting, homophobic or anything of the sort. That is not who I am at all. So I'll apologize to anyone I may have insulted. My initial post here was not meant to be a personal stance. And maybe my follow-up comment was a bit brash and not very well thought out, but I guess that happens when one is being labeled a bigot. If a man wishes to become a woman, feels as if he is truly a woman, then there is definitely something different going on inside their head. Calling them crazy was probably too harsh of a word, but my initial question was simply wondering why so many think that sort of thing is quite okay (and it is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong), but any other sort of deviation from what is so-called "normal" is frowned up. By the very same people. "Happy people have no stories" --Therapy?
Vince Liaguno		#66	[-]
Posts: 1173 (06/26/09 11:53:32) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lawrence Dagstine wrote: And Vince, I love how you talk about characterization in this thread but totally contradict yourself in the politcal correctness thread when it comes to "being real" in a story. It's like two different people talking two different things. No, Lawrence. It's really about one person not being able to read and comprehend. You weren't telling a story; you were making a joke. There is a huge difference between depicting the reality of child abuse in a piece of fiction --- if and in the rare instance I could fathom it being called for in a work of fiction --- and callously using adolescent, cartoonish, jock humor to mischaracterize the sexual abuse and explotation of children as you did. It's not about being politically correct; it's about being human. ~ Vince Author Website \| Blog \| MySpace \| Dark Scribe Press \| Dark Scribe Magazine \|
Vince Liaguno		#67	[-]
Posts: 1174 (06/26/09 12:01:06) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kenwood wrote: If a man wishes to become a woman, feels as if he is truly a woman, then there is definitely something different going on inside their head. Calling them crazy was probably too harsh of a word, but my initial question was simply wondering why so many think that sort of thing is quite okay (and it is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong), but any other sort of deviation from what is so-called "normal" is frowned up. By the very same people. 1) Because the two things you compared --- gender identity and an adult engaged in actions that may or may not speak to pedophilia --- are two completely different things. 2) Minimizing child sexual abuse with terms like "diddled". ~ Vince Author Website \| Blog \| MySpace \| Dark Scribe Press \| Dark Scribe Magazine \|
dogpoet		#68	[-]
Posts: 5530 (06/26/09 12:06:13) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vince Liaguno wrote: It's not about being politically correct; it's about being human. ~ Vince Would it be unfair to characterise a lot of what gets dismissed as political correctness as being just that? Most of what the hard right throws shit fits about the looney left imposing (or not even trying to impose, but that's a whole other debate) over here is just good manners, after all. Please buy my book, somebody?
Kenwood		#69	[-]
Posts: 596 (06/26/09 12:10:36) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Vince Liaguno wrote: Kenwood wrote: If a man wishes to become a woman, feels as if he is truly a woman, then there is definitely something different going on inside their head. Calling them crazy was probably too harsh of a word, but my initial question was simply wondering why so many think that sort of thing is quite okay (and it is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong), but any other sort of deviation from what is so-called "normal" is frowned up. By the very same people. 1) Because the two things you compared --- gender identity and an adult engaged in actions that may or may not speak to pedophilia --- are two completely different things. 2) Minimizing child sexual abuse with terms like "diddled". ~ Vince I wasn't talking about pedophilia. I was talking about man who very well may have viewed himself as a child. That was speculation, of course, but if true, how different is that from a gender identity issue? "Happy people have no stories" --Therapy?
dogpoet		#70	[-]
Posts: 5532 (06/26/09 12:26:15) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The fact that only one would involve abusing kids? I'd imagine that's quite a big distinction for most. Please buy my book, somebody?
Kenwood		#71	[-]
Posts: 597 (06/26/09 12:28:18) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dogpoet wrote: The fact that only one would involve abusing kids? I'd imagine that's quite a big distinction for most. Sure is, if you're making the assumption that he was guilty. I made no such assumption, however. "Happy people have no stories" --Therapy?
dogpoet		#72	[-]
Posts: 5533 (06/26/09 12:41:03) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	The main assumption I'm making is that the jury on the one occasion one of these allegations actually made it into the legal system, would have been petrified of what the lynch mob outside would have done to them if they'd returned a guilty verdict. It'll be very interesting to see what gets published now that he's dead on that level. Please buy my book, somebody?
Lawrence Dagstine		#73	[-]
Posts: 2881 (06/26/09 12:52:03) Veteran Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Lawrence Dagstine wrote: Anyway, it's 12:30 right now. In five, six hours the autopsy will be out Eastern Standard Time. I bet you he died of pain killer abuse. Took its toll finally on his heart. Like a good deal of other celebrities. To quote myself from last night. Wow, Demerol. Some heavy shit. Still inconclusive. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5654810/Michael-Jackson-police-prepare-to-interview-doctor.html Lawrence Dagstine Homepage: www.lawrencedagstine.com Order FRESH BLOOD: http://www.genremall.com/anthologiesr.htm#freshblood
wm ollie		#74	[-]
Posts: 1350 (06/26/09 12:52:47) Shocklineraholic More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I find it hard to get behind, or to give the benefit of a doubt to a grown man who states on national television while holding hands with a young boy 'that the greatest love he can show for a child is to take him to his bed'.
redredrage		#75	[-]
Posts: 1573 (06/26/09 12:59:01) Shocklineraholic More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	There are so very many things I could say here. Most of them I won't. But, despite the fact that the situation has been settled: Kenwood, if you think Jack Haringa would hold off in public anything he would say on a bulletin board, you do not know Jack Haringa. Straightest shooter on the planet when it comes to making his opinions known. It's why I admire, respect (and yes, fear) his reviews. http://www.jimshorror.com/
VeryUnseemly		#76	[-]
Posts: 917 (06/26/09 13:02:12) Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Kenwood wrote: Vince Liaguno wrote: Kenwood wrote: If a man wishes to become a woman, feels as if he is truly a woman, then there is definitely something different going on inside their head. Calling them crazy was probably too harsh of a word, but my initial question was simply wondering why so many think that sort of thing is quite okay (and it is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong), but any other sort of deviation from what is so-called "normal" is frowned up. By the very same people. 1) Because the two things you compared --- gender identity and an adult engaged in actions that may or may not speak to pedophilia --- are two completely different things. 2) Minimizing child sexual abuse with terms like "diddled". ~ Vince I wasn't talking about pedophilia. I was talking about man who very well may have viewed himself as a child. That was speculation, of course, but if true, how different is that from a gender identity issue? Now would be a great time to stop.
Lawrence Dagstine		#77	[-]
Posts: 2882 (06/26/09 13:04:32) Veteran Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	wm ollie wrote: I find it hard to get behind, or to give the benefit of a doubt to a grown man who states on national television while holding hands with a young boy 'that the greatest love he can show for a child is to take him to his bed'. I sleep with my kid. Basically, he doesn't want to be in the crib anymore and wants to share the big bed with me. When I worked in a day care for a brief stint I held kids hands. Does that make me a rapist? Since Michael Jackson was a mega-superstar, however, with an "OCD and image problem", maybe the perceptions of fans, people who made fun of his bleached skin, the paparazzi, his years of abuse from father Joe Jackson, and depression between love and media, put this flawed assumption out there. This kind of stereotype. And because of how he acts, dresses, he couldn't articulate his demeanor the way it should have come out or been perceived by people, like, say, Barbara Walters in 1997. Does anybody remember that interview? Lawrence Dagstine Homepage: www.lawrencedagstine.com Order FRESH BLOOD: http://www.genremall.com/anthologiesr.htm#freshblood
lokilokust		#78	[-]
Posts: 3459 (06/26/09 13:49:11) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	hey ken, don't worry... i'll be glad to say it to your face in a couple of weeks. yrs. in exile, -s.j. bagley
VictorVoyles		#79	[-]
Posts: 1270 (06/26/09 14:09:22) Master Shockliner More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ollie, So you're going to call the doctors that treated Michael Jackson a moron because they don't back up your assertion that he was a pedophile? They NEVER proved in court that Michael Jackson molested a child. The prosecutors own experts were saying that they seriously doubted the stories. Are they morons too? Just to be accused of molestation is enough to destroy a person. There was a case a few years back in which a young lady accused her uncle of molesting her. Even though there were a couple hundred eyewitnesses and video evidence that showed it NEVER happened, it cost the guy. Even when she turned around and publicly admitted that she had lied because he wouldn't give her an extra $50 for the mall, his life continued to go down hill. He lost his job, his wife, his family. He had to move across the country in order to get away from that. The father of one of Michael Jackson's "victims" came out and said that it was win-win for him. Either way, they were getting paid. It didn't matter to him that Michael Jackson would lose just about everything, to the father, it was all about the benjamins. Besides, whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?
Morikawa		#80	[-]
Posts: 28 (06/26/09 14:26:21) More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is basically another moron thread. Argue all you want, amongst yourselves, but dive into the dirt. It could be more interesting, that way. The natives are getting restless.

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Michael Jackson R.I.P.