Sure all is well.
And the Democratic nominee is...
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 John Morrissey |
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Posts: 2886 (06/04/08 15:12:12) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon |
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dlatham |
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Posts: 895 (06/04/08 16:09:27) Master Shockliner |
How I believe it really is:
Many Republicans declared Democrat to vote for Obama because they believe he will be easier to beat than Clinton. They will then switch back to Republican for the election. The Republican war machine is not going to hand all their profit potential over to a bunch of liberals without military experience, and if they do, nothing will change in the long run. It's all about money, and both parties are on the take, always. This country has changed media wise for outward appearances, but the voter base remains the quiet side of America that doesn't constantly get into the news because they don't have to. If someone actually got in with the best interest of the people at heart, they will kill him or her. It's amazing that people think they actually have a choice on anything.
Michael In Hell
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Ellen Datlow |
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Posts: 871 (06/04/08 16:33:53) Master Shockliner |
Well we DO have some choice. A choice between going in the same downhill spiral (IMHO) with the Republicans with regard to Iraq, the environment, the economy,
the bashing away at abortion rights and our Constitution, and something/anything different with the Democrats.
A pox on everyone over the years who said "they don't bother voting because the parties are the same. If I ever hear one of those people complaining about government and am in the same room with them I will throw something at them.
Ellen Datlow
Editor www.datlow.com |
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HarryShannon |
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Posts: 7534 (06/04/08 19:34:54) |
Ellen, I could not agree with you more.
And I hope Barack picks Wes Clark or Jim Webb for VP. I'd also bet he picks two or three Republicans for his cabinet. |
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Savage Steve King |
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Posts: 96 (06/04/08 22:52:07) Shockliner |
Ellen Datlow wrote: Isn't the essential problem here that neither party is really different at the core. Both sides have multi-millionaires as their party canidates. If
you think Obama is concerned about rising gas prices when he made more money LAST YEAR than the Clinton's made combined in the last six years then you are
truly a visionary -- as in someone who has smoked too much dope and is having wild visions.
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GregFG |
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Posts: 670 (06/05/08 03:36:02) Master Shockliner |
>>If you think Obama is concerned about rising gas prices when he made more money LAST YEAR than the Clinton's made combined in the last six years
>>then you are truly a visionary --as in someone who has smoked too much dope and is having wild visions.
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dlatham |
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Posts: 896 (06/05/08 04:30:41) Master Shockliner |
The New York Times reported yesterday that the Bush administration is trying to lock in a security contract with Iraq for years to come before he leaves
office, probably so their self-interest profits will continue even when out of office. They are trying to lock in their extra retirement bonus from us.
The DOD is not going to support any change that means they get less money, and the only change I can see coming with Obama, other than having the first black president, is higher taxes, because these guys all talk about this program and that program, but they never seem to mention where the money is going to come from, and after they are elected they tend to forget campaign promises. To believe the Iraq War is going to end just because a Democrat gets in office is like believing in Utopia. The only Utopia that matters in the political field is money, and all the money is being squeezed out of us. I keep asking people what changes they expect will happen. The only answer I ever get is, "I don't know, just change." Not one person has been able to clearly answer the change question. As a side note, I asked a recruiter about the age limit for combat. He told me (I'll be 62 this year) if I could subtract my years of previous military service from my age and end up with 42, that they would take me on active duty. Now, any country willing to let a 62 year old fight in a war on active duty, prior military or not, is really in trouble all the way around. Kind of reminds me of the German Army during their last gasp during WW2.
Michael In Hell
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nkalanta |
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Posts: 12542 (06/05/08 06:00:36) |
The tax "cuts" cannot continue. How in the hell are we supposed to pay down our debt and pay for a war?
One way is to eliminate corporate welfare (i.e. the $18 billion currently being given to the oil companies who are raking in multi-billion dollar profits), eliminating tax loopholes for the rich and penalizing companies that are outsourcing jobs to other countries thereby taking taxpayers out of the equation. But the reality is, that is never going to happen. I'm in favor of a flat tax with minimal exemptions (i.e. student loans, state property taxes and mortgage interest should remain), the elimination of subsidies to businesses that outsource jobs, and, in the case of the oil companies, rake in billions in profits. In fact, take that $18 billion in subsidies to the oil companies and pour it into alternative fuel research -- *create* jobs in the US instead of outsourcing them. Stop all payments to other countries. We are not in a position to give billions of dollars to other countries until we get ourselves out of the financial hole that we've been forced into over the last 8 years. Demand a thorough accounting of EVERY penny that has been given to any company involved in the Iraqi "rebuilding" and prosecute those who have "cheated" I hope everyone banks their government bribe, err, economic stimulus check, because you're going to need it next year when you have to pay taxes on it! |
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nkalanta |
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Posts: 12544 (06/05/08 06:04:20) |
p.s. I still think an Obama/Gore ticket would be awesome! Gore has a stronger base, I think, than Hillary *and* he is so much more popular!
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Ellen Datlow |
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Posts: 873 (06/05/08 07:01:13) Master Shockliner |
I don't care how much a candidate makes ask long as that candidate represents my core beliefs and will try do what is best for the nation and its citizens.
I believe the Democratic candidate does that. The Republican does not. Many of the Republicans in politics push policies (economic, social, and legal) that are
the antithesis of what I, a progressive, believe in.
Ellen Datlow
Editor www.datlow.com |
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TMWright.gorezone |
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Posts: 183 (06/05/08 08:22:47) |
Ideologically, McCain and Obama are pretty far apart, at least according to what they've said during this campaign: I find McCain pretty scary--another
GWB, maybe worse. Obama doesn't scare me and most of what he's said are in line with my thinking about the direction this country should take. I'll
vote for Obama.
T.M. |
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BryonMorrigan |
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Posts: 268 (06/05/08 12:04:53) Veteran Shockliner |
Vince Liaguno wrote: I wasn't quoting anyone. I was using quotation marks to illustrate the fallacy of the argument that Obama lacks experience. Were I to quote you or
direct a comment to you, then I would use the "quote" function, as I am doing now. His experience is different from hers in direct relation to the White House and the inner workings of the President. I agree that in terms of career trajectory, they're both similiar. But I also don't think one can discount either the active role Clinton played in her husband's presidency or the inner workings of the White House that she was exposed to. And while, yes, the role of "First Lady" is not an elected position, I think eight years in the White House afforded Clinton some degree of inside knowledge, interactions with foreign governments, first-hand experience dealing with GOP attacks in two presidential elections, and policy work that Obama couldn't have at this juncture in his career. Actually, I think to discount or minimize the role that women have played in the role of First Lady would be sexist, no? By that logic, Chelsea is somehow "experienced" as well? Should we have made Jackie O president when Kennedy was assassinated? Monarchy, anyone?
The role of "First Lady" itself is quite sexist, as a matter of fact. Just being the legal life-partner of a head of state should not entitle anyone to anything other than a secret service detail and a nice house. Were Hillary to have won this nomination, we would all be assuming that Bill would stay out of her affairs and let her run the country, correct? It goes both ways. If Hillary, or any other "First Lady" acted in any fashion other than a "good friend" (...and looking at their relationship, I'd say they ceased being friends long ago...) then a disservice has been done to the American people. And speaking of the whole "First Lady" role...When we elect our first gay president, will it be assumed/accepted that the president's husband is a significant influence on the governance of the nation? The way I see it, if someone's opinion of the role of "First Lady" would change with the gender or sexual orientation of the President, then that opinion is sexist. I'm not saying that your opinion is sexist. I'm just saying that people haven't given enough thought to this matter.This whole "experience" thing just ticks me off. It sounds more to me like talking points dictated by old, ageist, party officials who feel that anyone under 60 is unqualified to be President, because they haven't somehow "earned" the office by kissing the asses of other party officials and lobbyists for the last few decades. Age, gender, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation...these are all meaningless at this point. I'd thought we could move past those things by now... 
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Savage Steve King |
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Posts: 100 (06/05/08 13:52:23) Shockliner |
I guess I wasn't wrong when I said that Obama doesn't care about gas prices. In a new CNN article he already said he isn't going to do a damn thing
about rising gas prices and he has also said now that he isn't going to pull our troops out of Iraq.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/obama.interview/index.html This is exactly what I said.. he is just another millionaire who isn't at all in touch with the public. |
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dogpoet |
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Posts: 3199 (06/05/08 13:58:17) Top-Tier Shockliner Demon |
It is really a contest of idocy waged between multi-millionaires. You can't "not" be concerned about it because it is our country, but none of these three jokers cares about anything except their own career. That's politics for you, but it's still worth voting for the lesser evil, if only as a protest: what percentage of the electorate put the chimp in power in 2004? |
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nkalanta |
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Posts: 12548 (06/05/08 14:23:15) |
Savage Steve King wrote: Wow, wow, wow - I do not know *how* you got that out of the article since this is what he had to say about gas prices, universal health care and Iraq: In the wide-ranging interview, Obama said attaining universal health care -- the issue most prominently touted by Clinton -- and a new energy policy are the two domestic issues he is most concerned about. "We are going to pass a universal health care bill; it is long overdue," he said. "The time is right." On soaring gas prizes, Obama said, the only answer is a long-term energy solution. "That means increasing fuel efficiency in our cars, investing in alternative fuels and drastically revamping how we think about clean energy." On the issue of Iraq, Obama didn't rule out the possibility that conditions on the ground could alter his policy of immediately beginning a troop withdrawal from the country "Well, you know, I'd never say there's 'nothing' or 'never' or 'no way' in which I'd change my mind," he said of his withdrawal policy. "Obviously, I'm open to the facts and to reason. And there's no doubt that we've seen significant improvements in security on the ground in Iraq. And our troops, and Gen. Petraeus, deserve enormous credit for that." "I have to look at this issue from a broader strategic perspective, though," he added. "And in terms of long-term strategy, I am absolutely convinced that the best thing we can do is to set a clear timetable, tell the Iraqis we are going to start pulling out and do it in a careful fashion." |
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Vince Liaguno |
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Posts: 836 (06/06/08 03:51:35) Master Shockliner |
BryonMorrigan wrote: Only if he has an impeccable fashion sense. A gay Jackie O...imagine the possibilities for this country. Queer eye
for the USA! |
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AdamPepper |
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Posts: 265 (06/06/08 14:34:02) Veteran Shockliner |
First off, the Obama supporters and those in the media portraying Hillary as this washed up fighter who
doesn't know when it's time to hang up the gloves, are doing Hillary and the democratic party a huge disservice.
This was not a laugher. Obama did not win in a landslide. More
importantly, the general election figures to be hotly contested and go right down to the wire. Obama needs
Hillary's voters to win, make no mistake about it. Sure, the staunch democrats will come around, but the middle of
the road voters are plentiful and McCain will try his damnedest to scoop them up by hammering this image that Obama is inexperienced, too left wing, weak on
terrorism…etc…
Also, this notion that Hillary is dividing the party
is utter nonsense. How has she hurt Obama? This primary has done wonders for
his profile. He's gotten non-stop media coverage. He's had the
opportunity to demonstrate himself as charismatic and well spoken while McCain has been largely ignored. Furthermore,
he's been able to dodge some bullets by easing the wind out of the balloons of negativity, rather than having them explode in his face. Imagine if the Rev. Wright thing hit in September instead of now.
Personally, I think Obama needs Hillary to win. Her detractors aren't voting democratic anyway (other than the ones already in the Obama camp), and her supporters are fiercely loyal. Short of a colossal blunder on McCain's part, he's going to need every vote. |
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Wrath White |
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Posts: 423 (06/06/08 14:57:12) Veteran Shockliner |
Here are my thoughts on the campaign:
http://wordsofwrath.blogspot.com/2008/05/is-he-too-honest-for-his-own-good.html 
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elizabethdonald |
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Posts: 249 (06/06/08 16:01:41) Veteran Shockliner |
An excellent analysis, Wrath. I think I give the American public a little more credit than you do, but I freely admit I may be overly optimistic in that
regard. Until I read our letters to the editor.
ekd
--------
ABADDON, book three of the Nocturnal Urges series Available in ebook from Cerridwen Press! Coming soon to a bookstore near you! www.elizabethdonald.com |
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dlatham |
False Utopia | ||
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Posts: 898 (06/06/08 17:40:23) Master Shockliner |
Wrath:
A nice Utopian view, but that's all it is. You can't be that high in politics and not owe your very existence to the big money men, which means you're already versed at being a liar. And I don't know any slaves, and no one alive knows any slaves. That's an excuse for a lot of criminal behavior and the constant regeneration of racism. And of course everyone knows all the problems in the entire world are caused by straight, religious white people. Granted, this country is a mess, but it's all of our mess, not just the evil white oppressors holding back every other race.
Michael In Hell
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