http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion
Talking oil with Vice Chairman of Chevron
http://www.energyandoil.com/talking-oil-with-the-vice-chairman-of-chevron
~Dale
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Graveside Tales |
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Here are the 2006 and 2007 taxes paid by Exxon and yet people say these large corporations are not being taxed. This is just one example
http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion Talking oil with Vice Chairman of Chevron http://www.energyandoil.com/talking-oil-with-the-vice-chairman-of-chevron ~Dale |
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nkalanta |
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Dale - don't take this the wrong way but, as with the recent political debates and ID/evolution debates, your websites are oil/gas friendly. I can also
produce websites that offer a completely opposite view. They do nothing to sway anyone.
The one thing that we should *all* agree upon is that oil is not infinite. It is going to go away. Instead of spending money to drill the pristine wilds of Alaska, the protected National Forests or off-shore we should be putting our time, money and resources into making ourself fossil fuel independent. We need to look at hydrogen cars, solar and wind energy, and other alternate resources. Arguing about whether or not the oil companies are good, bad or indifferent will get us nowhere because, like politics and religion, all the arguing in the world is not going to change anyone's mind. But if we all work together towards a common goal of finding a solution to our energy problems, then the answers are within our reach and within our lifetime. |
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mgcardin |
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Reasons for high oil and gasoline prices:
Speculators? Yes. Limitations on drilling in certain places? Yes. The "fear factor" of international tensions? Yes. Rapidly (astonishingly) increasing demand from countries such as China and India, which are car-ifying at a lightning pace? Yes. Lack of adequate refining capacity for present demand trends on both national and global scales? Yes. Rapidly decreasing exports from major supplier countries that are finding they need to keep more of their oil at home? Yes. The imminent, or already occurring, all-time peak in the amount of global oil extraction and production? YES. The U.S. dumping oil into its Strategic Petroleum Reserve: NO, at least not presently, since the decision was recently made to suspend that practice in the interest of trying to manage the spike in prices. Ladies and gentlemen, the oil isn't about to run out. It's about to reach or has reached its all-time peak of supply. We're pumping more oil now than we ever have before or ever will again. But -- and here's the catch -- it's only downhill from here, after a plateau that will last several years or maybe over a decade. And the entire modern global industrial/technological economic system was built on the assumption of limitless, cheap, and always-increasing inputs of energy from fossil fuels. When that goes away, so does this way of life. Prices spiral permanently out of the reach of most people. Cities, regions, and nations whose ways of life are built upon and around energy-intensive practices -- e.g., automobile travel on a mass scale, urban living with gargantuan buildings, suburban living with extended commutes, food production based on fossil fuel inputs (fertilizers, pesticides, packaging, transport, etc.) -- all of these will collapse and/or mutate into drastically new modes and forms of living. The basics of peak oil theory are accepted by everybody now, even skeptics like Cambridge Energy Research Associates (CERA), whose uber-optimistic future forecasts for limitless oil production were a mainstay of pollyanas everywhere until just last year. Even such former naysayers as the International Energy Agency (IEA) and the U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Information Administration (EIA) have now come around to making pretty dire forecasts. All of the above-named reasons for high oil and gas prices are in play. And yes, natural gas will follow suit. But the basic, underlying reason is geological, and it is insurmountable.
Last Edited By: mgcardin
06/21/08 17:35:35.
Edited 3 times.
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Glen R Krisch |
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Matt, thanks for chiming in. I was hoping you would.
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mgcardin |
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You're welcome, Glen, and thanks for the interest. I hope my chiming is more effective now that I've corrected the hundred and one typos and dropped
words that afflicted my original, hastily composed post.
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Graveside Tales |
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My argument with Exxon taxation is that it is already happening. Instead of saying they want to tax these guys profits for alternative fuels why not take a
portion of what they are already being taxed and divert that for R&D. Take another portion of the tax and set it up in some sort of land trust fund so we
can make we put things back the way we found it.
No one believes that doing something is going to solve the problem immediately but you have to start some where. The other article's main piece was the amount of untouchable areas we should be drilling in but yet some EnvMent stop us from doing anything. ~Dale |
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JKnight1 |
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Matt, THANK YOU! You articulated very clearly why this is a complicated issue that does not lend itself to easy, simplistic "solutions" such as
Bush's. At some point we MAY need to drill in offshore America and wilderness preserves. But that isn't going to save us now, and it isn't a long
term answer. We need to transition now into a society that depends far, far less on oil because there's only so much of it, it's going to get precious,
and finally it will run out. We have to plan for that day!
For years, Congress has refused to pass legislation that would require car companies to build and sell cars/trucks/SUVs that got better gas mileage because the American public loved its gas hogs and Detroit loved to sell them. Our leaders should be proactive; they should LEAD. Instead, they follow public opinion. Now those gas guzzlers have become liabilities, GM and Ford are in the financial dumps and individuals are stuck with vehicles they can't afford to drive and can't sell. The free market is a wonderful thing, but it's REACTIVE. Our leaders are supposed to be better than that. Any dumbass can follow polls; it takes vision and courage to look ahead and make the tough decisions that prepare us for the future. Sadly, our leaders in the Administration and in Congress have failed miserably in this regard, and now here we are. IMHO, of course. Jan |
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Monty Grue |
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From Skeptoid Podcast: Is Peak Oil the End of Civilization?
Doomsayers claim that peak oil production will mean a worldwide panic and catastrophe of epic proportions. This is a frightening prospect, but it completely ignores the fundamentals of economics. The nature of markets is to react and adapt. They always have, they always do, and there's no reason to think that that's suddenly going to stop. You can read the text or listen to the Podcast. There may be problems or troubles, but high gas prices will not be the End of Civilization. |
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rchandler |
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There is no good excuse for not drilling here in the US. Future projections of when the world supply might run dry provide no good reason for America to remain
dependent on oil from the unstable Middle East or any other country. We can tap our own reserves with little risk of fouling the environment. It may take a
decade or so to cut our dependence but why should we be short-sighted about it? Ten years from now we might be paying $20 a gallon if we don't begin now to
get at our own resources. And don't believe those politicians that say we don't have that much oil anyway, not enough to make a difference. They like
to throw numbers around but the fact is that they've even made it illegal to do geological surveys to determine how much oil we're sitting on. (I guess
the thinking behind this is to keep us in ignorance so we won't even be tempted to use our own resources.)
By all means, put speculators on a short leash. (Making them take delivery on the barrels they buy on paper might do the trick.) And put more money and effort into finding alternative energies. But in the meantime, let's go all out toward a goal of energy independence. As long as we're hostage to oil production run by Arab countires, our national security will be in under constant threat. To continue along our present path--making it illegal to tap our own energy resources--is to remain "stuck on stupid." World economies run on oil. Oil is used in the production of many products, from shoes and DVDs to vitimins. Today's high oil prices should be the wake-up call for producers to begin to look for other means of making their products. But a massive change-over can't happen overnight, and it can't happen without endangering an already shaky economy. Our poorer citizens will suffer the most. A nation's energy policy should not be decided by environmental extremists and political manipulation. We need common sense and determination. The reason we're hurting now is due to the short-sighted political agendas of the past. It's time to tap our reserves of common sense and work toward rational solutions.
Last Edited By: rchandler
06/23/08 05:24:03.
Edited 2 times.
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Graveside Tales |
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People are looking for a quick fix and there isn't one. Because of this they would rather NOT start new drilling rather than be proactive and start now.
Hell no one has explained how 23 years ago we were pumping out 9.9 million barrels a day and now our amount pumped is 2/3 less yet consumption has gone down.
As for new cars getting better gas mileage sorry that isn't a fix either right now. People are unwilling or not able to purchase new cars all the time and so they make do with what they have. Bottom line: There is no quick fix and once people get over that, the government stops all it's lame as subsidies for thinks like ethanol, and we actually start doing something than things will become affordable again. Hell right now the market is running on F.U.D. you don't believe me than explain why there was an announcement that more oil would be pumped and yet today oil has hit a new all time high? An announcement like that should have dropped oil to around $130 a barrel for the day but instead it's up $2.52. All hell will break loose if there is a hurricane or some crap between Israel and Iran or any other nation that supplies oil to the world and you will see $200 a barrel. All you Barack Obama supporters flat out said he will do whatever to stop off shore drilling to preserve the coastal areas. ~Dale
Last Edited By: Graveside Tales
06/23/08 09:30:54.
Edited 1 times.
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nkalanta |
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Has it ever occurred to those advocating more drilling that you are only prolonging the inevitable. Oil is going to go away and we need to start addresses this
fact NOW. Not ten years from now when all the oil is gone and the world is plunged in to chaos. But RIGHT NOW! We need to start embracing alternative fuels. We
must give the gas/oil and automobile manufactureres a manadate to build vehicles that run on something other than fossil fuels. We must force the gas/oil
companies to start fixing the refineries that were damanged during Katrina and explore the 68 MILLION ACRES of land they lease *before* allowing them to drill
elsewhere.
Sorry, but I don't agree one whit with those of you who still hang on to the antiquated, ineffecient, polluting way of life. I do not trust the oil/gas companies to keep our land/water safe/clean - they have proven themselves to be more interested in money than in keeping our land/air/water pristine (see EXXON VALDEZ). Exxon spent more money trying to defend themselves against the spill than they did trying to clean it up or making double walled tankers. If they had taken responsibility for the spill and spent that money for clean up, remediation and creating safer tankers then I would give them the benefit of the doubt. They didn't. They lost my and many others trust. Alternative fuels are the future and if you/we don't start looking in that direction then our future will bear a very close resemblance to Mad Max. |
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Graveside Tales |
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Oil isn't going to run out anytime soon. You explore all the alternative fuels you want but if people can't afford these alternatives that it becomes a
mute point. As for Valdez THAT WAS THE CAPTAIN'S FAULT NOT EXXON. That is also the lamest excuse I EVER heard of for NOT doing something. THERE IS NO QUICK
FIX BECAUSE YOU HAVE ALL THIS F.U.D. going on, and perfect example NK cited running out of oil and Mad Max syndrome. Next people will be saying clowns like Al
Gore are not lining their wallets with all the constant Global Warming F.U.D. going on.
~Dale |
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nkalanta |
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Graveside Tales wrote: I don't know what FUD is. I do know that the EXXON VALDEZ would not have spilled millions of gallons of oil if it had double walled instead of single walled storage tanks. Yes, some fault lies with the captain but he was merely a scapegoat for Exxon. That still doesn't explain why Exxon spent more money trying to defend itself when a more honorable company would have "done the right thing" I'm not crying wolf -- it is a know fact that the oil will run out. What I cite is no more "fear mongering" than the current administration using "terrorism" to keep the masses 'in line' and attempt to strip us of our civil liberties. There is no quick fix involved with drilling offshore or in Alaska or in National Parks. It will be 10-20 years before we see a return *if* we see a return. That 10-20 years and billions and billions of dollars can be used to research and produce vehicles that run on hydrogen, solar or hybrid power. Besides, it is getting to the point where the average American has to decide whether to put food on their tables or gas in their tanks. |
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Graveside Tales |
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F.U.D. = Fear Uncertainty Doubt
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BryonMorrigan |
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![]() Just walk away...Leave the gas, and walk away...
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Graveside Tales |
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HAHAHA
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rchandler |
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"Embracing alternative fuels" may sound good but we are not there yet. Not even close. We can't "embrace" our way out of this crisis.
Not all of us have the luxury of being able to conserve by decreasing our demand. What about someone who has to drive 40 miles to work each day and can't
afford to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle right now? (And with the cost of everything going up due to transportation expenses, it won't be easy
budgeting for a new car.) Embrace what? An ideal?
Don't believe everything the ecco-socialists tell you. |
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Graveside Tales |
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There is a solution but I doubt Mexico would go for it. 1 barrel of oil per day for each illegal here. That would give us something like 12,000,000-20,000,000
barrels per day.
~Dale |
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BryonMorrigan |
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Quick, easy, inexpensive ways to save gas money:
Step 1: STOP DRIVING LIKE A JACKASS!!! If you drive aggressively, you waste shitloads of gas. If you accelerate towards a red light, you're a fucking idiot. If you're one of those people weaving in and out of traffic, you're a loser...and we still all get to the next red light together, dumbass! Step 2: Brakes are the enemy! If you time your accelerations in traffic, you can avoid using your brakes most of the time. If the light up ahead has just turned red, it will be that way for a while. Take your foot off the accelerator. Coast. If you do it just right, you might be able to coast right through just as the light turns green. I do it all the time. Every time you brake, you're wasting gas. Every time you accelerate, you're wasting gas. Step 3: Accelerate slowly. Yeah, most people (men and women, I might add...) seem to have a serious low self-esteem issue that makes them feel it's necessary to accelerate faster than the guy next to you when pulling out of a red light. It's stupid, pointless, and wasteful. I never let the engine get above 2000 RPMs. The idiots behind me get angry. They dart around me and occasionally flick me the bird. But guess what? WE ALL GET TO THE NEXT RED LIGHT TOGETHER, DUMBASS! I generally increase the efficiency of any car I drive by 10-15 MPG, just by altering my driving. I showed my MIL how to do this the other day and got 12 MPG better than her on the same 40 mile stretch of road. Drive slowly. Unless you're on the interstate, you'll get there just as quickly as everyone else. Turn up the music and enjoy it. You'll save money, and be far less stressed than those idiots with self-esteem issues buzzing around you. |
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nkalanta |
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Hmm - seems that it will get more affordable *and* it looks as though even presidential
candidates feel that alternatives are an imperative. And I'm using McCain here so I'm not accused of being a leftist, tree hugging, commie, pinko,
hippy
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