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Ellen Datlow |
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Stop embarrassing me, Mark
Ellen Datlow
Editor www.datlow.com |
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NickolausPacione |
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IT's not dead -- just became more underground.
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kevinlucia |
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"Is that clear enough? The Road is still selling. Hill is selling. King is selling. Koontz, Hamilton, Charlene Harris, Ramsey Cambell, Tom Piccirilli all
sell. Lovecraft got his book in the Library of America before the founder did, and has already gone back for a second printing. Saw has become a franchise,
Hellboy II topped the America box office this week. Resident Evil and Silent Hill are two highly successful computer game franchises. The primary threat in the
Harry Potter books and films are strongly horrific.
Horror is doing badly, but only if you ignore what's selling." What he said. |
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VeryUnseemly |
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Qusoor wrote: Thank you! I've been sitting here thinking something along this line, but I didn't really have the time or energy to put it to words. |
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Rich Ristow |
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Qusoor wrote: Good one, Mr. Goodrich.
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Savage Steve King |
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Best selling horror author Sara Langan doesn't think
horror is dead,
I've given up trying to write dating stories, mostly because I'm bad at it. But this is good news, since my luck has recently turned. Dark fiction is back in vogue. |
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Rich Ristow |
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And you know what? I bought "The Missing" in a *gasp* supermarket.
(Which means: that purchase had no reflection on her Amazon ratings). |
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Savage Steve King |
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Rich Ristow wrote: I got mine in a brick and mortar Barnes & Noble. They don't have a horror section, but they have no shortage of Leisure horror titles (and horror titles from other publishers). |
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Shocklines |
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Yes, by putting horror titles in the general fiction section at B&N, it allows B&N to buy more horror since they're not restricted to a
particularly small shelf space. That's what allowed Richard Laymon's ISLAND to hit #2 on B&N's nationwide bestseller list when it was released
years ago.
Shocklines.com -- your one-stop shop for hell on earth
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Rich Ristow |
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As long as we're playing this game, let me also, rather shockingly, point out that I've also bought Brian Keene, John Skipp, and Mary SanGiovanni
novels in supermarkets. While I do the shopping for my wife and myself, I've seen people pick up and thumb through Dean Koontz, Stephen King, Bryan Smith,
Ed Lee, John Saul, Whitley Streiber, and Joe Hill titles, not to mention vampire romances and the forensic styled serial killer mystery novels. And all of
this is without going to Borders and running into Permuted Press zombie titles in the horror section.
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Rich Ristow |
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I've even found Nick Mamatas in the Science Fiction section of Barnes and Noble, along with his Soft Skull counterpart Martin Millar, "The Good
Fearies of New York" with Tachyon titles not far from Prime anthologies.
Forget about horror for a moment, genre fiction as a whole must be doing okay, especially when you look at the landscape and see that more than traditional New York City mass market publishers are making it into the brick and mortar stores.
Last Edited By: Rich Ristow
07/14/08 20:40:58.
Edited 1 times.
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alienmotives |
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Horror as a publishing designation may be doing poorly, but I attribute that to publishers and their publicity efforts more than anything else.
There was a time in the 1980s when "the next Stephen King" was a ubiquitous phrase in publicity efforts. The simple reason for that was King's sales. He was selling phenomenally, and every publisher wanted to duplicate those sales... nothing succeeds like success, and imitation is standard operating procedure in any entertainment field. Robin Cook found his medical thrillers shelved in horror. Mercedes Lackey's witch detective series was shelved in horror. So were dozens of other authors... usually appropriately, sometimes questionably. And most of the major publishers continued to try to develop their own stable of horror authors in an attempt to duplicate the King sales. It worked, to a degree. It's still working today. The only differences I see is that there aren't nearly as many slots open for experimenting on new authors, and proven authors sometimes find themselves in a death spiral for sales as a book with lower figures than previous titles causes a publisher to publicize the next book less, leading to fewer sales for that title, etc.... However, I think that may be more a function of overall reading and publishing trends than anything specific to horror. Publicity sells. If a book is out front in a store, it has a better chance to move copies than if it's sitting on a shelf, not even faced. People are more likely to purchase a book if they've heard it's going to be released, whether on radio ad, television interview or print ad. Publishers still wish to make money. That's why most of them are publishers in the first place. If, at some point in the future, the success of an author or five leads someone to experiment with a line designated as horror and the secondary authors in that line show significant sales bumps because of it, five will get you ten other publishers will follow suit. If, instead, labelling something as fantasy, paranormal romance or general fiction will generate bigger sales, that's how the work will be labelled and marketed. But a label for a book doesn't radically change the content, nor does its publicity campaign.
Alien Motives books: www.alienmotives.com
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Shocklines |
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And again, to be fair -- I can't even say that books with "horror" on the spine are doing poorly. I've seen plenty of books clearly labeled
as horror that have gotten excellent co-op placement in the stores and seem to be doing well.
Shocklines.com -- your one-stop shop for hell on earth
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blackfaery76 |
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I live in a very, and I do mean very, small town in NB, Canada, and I can easily find Richard Matheson paperbacks, and I believe I even saw one or two hard
covers of his, but could be wrong on the HCs, in my local Superstore. Horror isn't dying, simply evolving, like it always does. It has its waves, its
piques and dips, but I can honestly say I have never struggled to find horror, and even names I see here, like Mr. Douglas Clegg, Mr. Tom Piccirilli (sp?), in
my local, large supermarket chain. I really can't see MMP horror showing a trend of dying out. I agree with Ms. Langan -- if anything, it is returning to
mainstream 'fashion'. I even think *gasp* dark fantasy is coming back into a more favorable light, but I am a self-professed newbie, so what do I know?
(tongue-in-cheek; no harm meant with that last bit. I truly am a newbie, if I have only been around under 10 plus years, imho.)
Just my 0.2 Louise ~ |
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Sabledrake |
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Seems well-represented in the stores around here, too. I don't think it's dead at all. Even when it might seem dead, it comes back. Always. Like a
psychokiller or the living dead.
-- C. |
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Nemonymous |
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Just a question; how have the proportions changed in the following mass-market categories of Horror fiction over recent times:
(a) clearly labelled as 'Horror' alongside clear Horror artwork etc. (b) seen to be Horror becuase of artwork but not labelled Horror (c) not clear from outside that it is Horror at all but text when read is genuine Horror genre. As to literary fiction, Horror has always been in most literary fiction. Horror is a part of literature, even in the most unexpeced places .I would not call this part of the Horror genre as such and does not really bear on this debate. Or am I wrong? My view is that, notwithstaning one's views on the Horror genre's long-ternm health, it could be doing far better than it is because of some of the deep-seated factors acting against it in Society (as perceived by Society). |
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blackfaery76 |
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My view is that, notwithstaning one's views on the Horror genre's long-ternm health, it could be doing far better than it is because of some of the deep-seated factors acting against it in Society (as perceived by Society).I do agree with you there, N, but I think those deep seated factors have always been there. Correct me if I am wrong, please, but didn't H.P. even struggle for proper recognition among his peers, and in the then recognized mainstream, and only achieved any real respected notably for his work after his death? Seriously, I am no H.P. scholar, but do enjoy his work a great deal, so anyone who can expound on my questions, or help me out here, please do. (a) clearly labelled as 'Horror' alongside clear Horror artwork etc.I do agree with you that current society, since the 911 attacks and the war in the Middle East (no, I am not being controversial there, so please, let us not stir shit, and let's remain civil, and engage in diplomatic discourse, that is all I ask), does seem more sensitive to controversial material, and I see more appearances of 'thriller', 'crime fiction', and 'mystery' on the shelves than 'horror' on the spine, but, look back to Victorian times. We were moer touchy about controversial subject matter then, too. Imho, I think it is just a common trend of human society to be a bit sensitve to our deep seated fears, which horror and dark fiction looks at, in times of crisis and high fear, paranoia, in societies in many areas of our world. Fear happens, and not all of us like to explore it as deeply as some of us others do. We all have our levels of discretion and tolerance, and, well, the trend seems to be to play a bit safer with those fears on a mainstream level these days, but I don't see it as an over all deteriment to the horror market. Again, just my humble .02 Louise |
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Smilemime |
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blackfaery76 wrote:Not so much among his peers - he was greatly admired by writers such as Clark Ashton Smith, Robert E. Howard, Frank Belknap Long, Bob Bloch, Fritz Leiber, Henry Kuttner and others. I don't know of much British enthusiasm during his lifetime, though. Mainstream acceptance didn't come until decades after his death (the French, such as Cocteau, were among his earliest admirers outside the field). |
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Smilemime |
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I keep meaning to mention that at least a decade ago we had a panel at the British Fantasy Convention with pretty well the theme of this discussion - "Is
Horror Dead?" If that wasn't the title of the panel, it's close. The very first thing Doug Winter said on the panel was that ten years previously
he'd been on a panel that addressed exactly the same theme.
I'm struck by this article from the talented Weird Tales writer Robert Barbour Johnson: http://www.fanac.org/fanzines/NewFrontiers/NewFrontiers1-12.html Despite the title of the essay, it's very largely about horror. It's a recurring cycle, folks. |
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Shrews |
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I hope death isn't the key to recognition...but seriously folks...
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